Saturday, October 23, 2010

Apache Update

 

Apachemeds

After a week of soaking, scrubbing, picking, poking, prodding, applicating, inserting, packing and wrapping I am done treating my Apache mare for thrush. I just don’t think thrush is her problem. We are just too darn dry here and Apache never has an opportunity to stand around in any moist environments. Yes, she has cracks in her heels and frog, but there’s nothing in there, but dry skin.

I’ve consulted with several experienced local horse people, including Colleen, the manager of Walkin in Circles Horse Rescue, two equine vet techs (one of which was over here the other day exploring Apache’s foot cracks and found no indication of thrush), my farrier, and two separate equine vets and an equine chiro practitioner.  And they all agree that Apache’s feet don’t appear to be infected with thrush at all. And most importantly her lameness issues seem to be in her upper leg and not in her foot.

Apachefoot

I also went back into my blog archives and found it interesting that even Baby Doll's feet looked much like Apache’s do now.

And then I went back to the blog archive post just before I bought Apache in March and looked at her feet. They don’t look much different than now either, except a less dry, but that was due to the fact that we brought her up here from the Rio Grande River Valley, where Apache was kept on a flat grassy pasture, unlike the steep, rocky, parched land she is on now.

My neighbor friend, Val of Fantastyk Voyage Blog has been kind enough to be my assistant and hold Apache while I’ve been doing the thrush treatments this past week. (and photographer, too) Val doesn’t think Apache has any issues with thrush either. We’ve both been surprised at what a good patient Apache has been this past week.

Apacheandme

With all of my digging, poking, prodding, squirting, scrubbing, soaking, packing, and ripping of tape, Apache hasn’t shown any discomfort or sensitivity in her feet. And even after the last strip of duct tape has been strapped to her foot, and her halter removed, Apache still chose to hang out with Val and I as we chatted while I put all the supplies away.

Now even though we’re done with the thrush treatments, we’re not done with trying to get to the bottom of Apache’s lameness issues and help her stay healthy.

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I love my current farrier, so I’m going to see if he’ll change some of the ways that he trims Apache and not be as conservative. I’ve only owned Apache for just under 8 months and she’s had 5-6 trims in that time. I want to have her trimmed from now on every 4-5 weeks, even though that will probably mean all the farrier will be doing is coming out and just doing slight balancing and rasping. With our arid environment, especially in winter, hooves grow very slowly. I plan to discuss with my farrier if he’s capable of doing Natural Balance Barefoot trims, because I’m not sure if her sole and frog are making proper contact with the ground the way they are trimmed now. I’d also like a mustang roll, although I know that won’t completely prevent Apache from getting knicks in her feet because of how steep and rocky our property is. And I know it will take time to get Apache’s feet as healthy as I’d like them to be. Her previous owner, who only owned Apache for a year, told me that when she found Apache her hooves were seriously neglected and it took her a long time to get them improved. And it’s obvious Apache still has a long time to go still.

We’re also changing Apache’s diet, much to my mare’s unhappiness. I’ve cut out most of her apple and carrot treats and also her grain, because she has definitely gotten chunky being a pasture puff for the past four months. I’ve never given Apache more than 1 measuring cup of grain, even though the grain is specially formulated and has absolutely no sugar or molasses (only Alfalfa Pellet, Corn,Crushed Milo, Rolled Oats, Rolled Barley, Rolled Flaxseed, Wheat Bran, and Beet Pulp Shreds, and is just 13% protein, 15% fiber , and only 5% fat ) (I have more info on this custom made, specially formulated grain in This Post.

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But I’m not changing Apache’s diet because of the comment left by a particular blogger, which I must admit surprised me. This person, as far as I know, has never once visited my blog before. She doesn’t know me or my horse and she hasn’t even seen earlier photos of my mare, like this one from The very first post I ever did on Apache. There are lots of photos of her in that post, and besides being a little chunkier now, she looks much the same. If this blogger had been reading my blog over the past year, she’d know that was one of my concerns early on and I had my mare tested for Insulin Resistance, and not only is Apache NOT IR, but she is also NOT pre-Cushings. And of course, I also discussed with both of my vets the possibility of remaining toxins from the sage poisoning, but both vets reassured me that because sage is not considered to be highly toxic (many horses eat it as a daily forage food) and sage isn’t held long term within the body, and because the exposure was so brief, this isn’t something I should worry about.

As for her personality change when she kicked me, that could have been caused by the sage poisoning………or not. Remember that I was chasing her with an item she wanted nothing to do with, and I was too close, and she did warn me before she kicked me. Any horse can get annoyed and kick. And Apache, although sweet, does have her moody moments, too. Don’t you all remember the time She Bit Me when I took her for a walk, before I had even bought her? Apache can be a little outspoken at times when she’s got something to say and thinks you’re not listening.

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Which leads me to her recent dietary changes. She is one grouchy girl right now. I used to always bring her a carrot or an apple when I’d head up to the paddock and Apache would be so happy to see me, nickering, snuffling, ears pricked forward, but patient and relaxed. Now that I have no carrots or apples, she greets me impatiently, pacing, nickering, snorting, prancing, with her ears laid back. And she acts that way, while giving me the stink eye, the entire walk up to the barn! She is not a happy girl.

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Yesterday, she was so impatient in her stall as I walked into the barn, pawing at the ground and the fence, that I ignored her and fed the llamas and goats first. She loudly and deeply nickered her displeasure at me, but finally decided to stand still and wait. And this morning, between the windy cold weather and her moodiness, she was hyper, shaking and bobbing her head, trying to run circles around me while making low nickering noises. I’d wave her away and she’d make a pouty face and lean her neck and head back towards me as if asking, “What’s changed? Why are you unhappy with me?”

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~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Warning: Griping Below*

Anyway, in response to the hoof comments, it bugs me that strangers who have never visited your blog before, can feel so superior to just pop on and leave a judgmental, know-it-all, advice-riddled comment when they know nothing at all about you, your horse care management, or for that matter, your horse.

And sometimes other bloggers think they are being helpful by giving you their opinion on your choice of footwear, while you photographed your horse’s hooves. Oy!

But I think it’s sad and even disturbing that I posted about my horse’s hooves and received more than 30 comments, while the post about my daughter the very next day, and how she conquered her fears, which also related to my own fears and confidence issues with horses, only received 7 comments!

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It seems that posting about problems or issues gets more people stopping by to add their two cents, while posts that are positive or happy, get passed on by and ignored. Sheesh…….maybe I should get injured more often and have multitudes of problems so lots of bloggers will leave me comments………or maybe I should just take my blog private….or stop blogging all together.

 



(edited by LOR 10/25/10)(Thank you for all the comments. I appreciate them, but have chosen not to post them, to protect everyone's privacy)

25 comments :

duffylou said...

I'm sorry Lisa that you are feeling this way. I try not to leave comments unless it's something I'm passionate about, (like your photos), or something I believe may help the situation.

I had an opinion the day you showed Apache's before and after hoof pics, but so did a lot of others so I figured you didn't need mine. And for some reason I didn't read all of the comments that day.

I hope your frustration can be put aside for those of us that do read you every day. We would miss you terribly if you were missing from the blog roll.

StefRobrts said...

I didn't comment on the post about your daughter because after reading it I was moved enough to spend a bit of time thinking about my own fears, and the wisdom and resilience of children. Where does that go when we grow up?!

Sorry to hear you are being bothered by rude commenters. I remember when this happened to you a few years ago. It makes me glad only a few people visit my blog, which I really consider my personal journal! I don't think I'd be happy to get advice from nosy strangers either! You should toss them when they arrive and not think twice about them! On the web people are always more likely to gravitate towards drama, and from what I've seen there's something about people with a passion for animals (be it horses, goats, or dogs) that seems to bring out the worst in some people!

Hang in there. I would be very sad if you quit blogging!

Nuzzling Muzzles said...

I guess most of us are just problem solvers. Problems get people thinking. I read a lot more posts than I leave comments on, because sometimes I have nothing new or different to say beyond what others have already said.

People who haven't been reading my blog regularly often leave comments that insult my intelligence or frustrate me, because I feel like I have to repeat the background information to make them understand. But then I realize I don't have to do anything to explain myself. Those who read my blog regularly can read the comment and know that it is from a person who hasn't read the series of posts.

I am officially up to 3 lame horses now. I love it how the last 2 waited until I got laid off from my job to run up the vet bills. Lostine now limps when she walks, Bombay is in his poultice wrap due to a hoof abscess, and Gabbrielle still has her wonky trot. Plus I get to treat them all for their individual problems in the rain and mud. All 3 cases are a complete mystery as to how and why their lameness occurred.

Of course, it makes me look bad as a horse owner to have all my horses go lame at once, but I have changed nothing in my routine, and haven't had problems with lameness in any of them for the previous 10 years. It almost makes me wonder if neighbors have been feeding them behind my back and causing them to founder. Anyway, I don't know whether to get angry or cry. I have such lousy luck. The point is that you are going through this with me, even though it is at a distance.

Cheryl Ann said...

Lisa, I hear your frustration. Sometimes I just don't blog on ANY of my blogs. It can get disheartening...but, I for one, DO hope that you'll keep it up! I so look forward to reading your blog! Take care.

Jeni said...

I'm sorry about Apache ~ mystery lameness sure does suck bad. Thrush doesn't make sense to me either.

I believe some were absent on the "if you have nothing nice to say keep your mouth shut" lesson day.

{{{HUGS}}}

colleen said...

Well said! I do think people just like to sit in judgement of others rather than be helpful, must make them feel superior or something.

Anonymous said...

It's usually the case on blogs that problems or scary stuff, or bad thing happening, get more comments that good stuff - I'm also often frustrated by this.

You're doing a great job of considering Apache's needs and being sure she gets what she needs in terms of hoof care and diet - kudos to you!

Sherry Sikstrom said...

Oh Lisa! I hope this resolves with Apache for you soon. as to the comments ,I try to cmment on each post if I can and have something to say that I think will help ,but I miss the odd one as well. My blog suffers the same by times ,I recently posted about saomething ,that while it may be controversial I felt needed to be said.I wondered if I had offended some people as I saw no comments from them for a couple posts , but ...it is what it is .If I missed the post about your beautiful girl I am truly sorry ,I am often so enraptured with her lovely smile that I forget to say anything. Glad you took the chance and treated Apache for thrush , it certainly cannot hurt.and you can now effectivley and completely rule it out.
Sorry you are feeling hurt and frustrated by all of this ,please don't shut down your blog ,you would be terribly missed

Dan and Betty said...

Is it safe to post? Just kidding.

I think it's safe to assume it's not thrush. And I support your diet change. I also support going to more frequent trims. It costs some more money, but I think it's a good idea.

Follow your instincts. You know Apache better than anyone else now.

Good luck.

Dan

Debi said...

You are an awesome Momma of children,goats, chickens, horses, and Llamas. People who only pop in, don't see that you have had the vet, horse experts, and horse rescue experts assisting you, and you are trying to cover all your bases.
As for Jenna, they don't know her. I remember when she was little, and she has come so far! Keep Blogging. It's your Blog, and if they don't like it, go jump in a bail of hay!

small farm girl said...

Do NOT stop blogging because of what people say. This is YOUR blog, not anyone elses. You should write for yourself. Plus, I still love reading your blog. lol

Andrea -Mustang Saga said...

I'm sorry you're getting so many "helpful" comments. I feel bad because I don't comment often enough, and your post about your daughter at the skating rink was really inspiring to me, especially the part about not letting other people's horror stories stop you from facing your fears. I'll just say now that I enjoy all of your posts, I'm just not much of a commenter, unfortunately.

I didn't see the comments on the post about Apache's feet, but I'm not surprised that you got a lot of "helpful" advice. There are a lot of people out there with opinions about hooves, and I'm one of them, but I like to keep my thoughts to myself, knowing that a complete stranger can't possibly know what's best for someone else's horse, especially based solely on photos. One truth about horse hooves - they're amazing. Their ability to be sound in so many different circumstances is really awesome. They heal themselves most of the time, given the chance. Which isn't to say your Apache mare needs healing, I'm just babbling. What's important is that you're doing all you can to get to the bottom of her troubles, and YOU know better than some stranger, and if you need more information, you're obviously more than willing to do what's necessary to find it. You're doing a great job as a horse owner. I hope you don't decide to take your blog private. I really enjoy all of your stories and photos. My son loved your Balloon Fiesta posts.

Horse people are funny. Some are sweet, some are rude, most like to share their knowledge, which is great sometimes. It's not cool when the rude ones don't know how to be tactful. I ran into that just recently on a local forum and it made my jaw drop, even though it wasn't directed at me. Some people!

Janet said...

Lisa, Hang on in there! I read your posts with great interest and enjoy all aspects of your blog. I have occasionally left comments when I felt I had something useful and constructive to say. I think you are a dedicated and caring parent and animal owner and I just love the way you interact and involve your children. Your children are a credit to you. Apache will get better with time.

Janet xx

Gail said...

Oh, never stop!!!

If I failed to comment, it was an oversite.

Your horse is cared for far better than my family!!! Your children are wonderful and well balanced and I celebrate Jena's love for life and her abilities every time I read. I was so proud of her love of Apache...now, there is a true love connection.

You must do like my sister says, don't take it personal...who knows what kind of problems these mean commenters have...they may only be seeking approval while feeling very inferior themselves.

Even though I am taking a break now, due to total confusion on my direction in life, (no problems, just my mind...thinking too much) I do not know what I would do with out you!

Mellimaus said...

On one hand, I know how you feel.
I get basically no comments anymore.and it's not for lack of commenting on other blogs. It's disappointing, and with each post I do, I toy with the thought of just quitting.
Maybe I will. I'm not sure yet. I'm trying to tell myself it's worth it even without feedback.

I'm sorry about Apache's lameness.
I can honestly say from personal experience, Daisy was very very lame a lot when she was trimmed barefoot with a traditional farrier. We moved to shoes and she wasn't lame, but she hated getting them on. (I now know...shoes only cut off circulation b/c the hooves can't flex, and so nerves die and the pain is gone). Now she's "naturally" barefoot trimmed and completely barefoot on gravel and everything, and she's completely fine! It amazes me.
That said, I know it may not be just that that's your problem (or not at all). I've heard that emu oil can help with dried out hooves...but I've never experienced having to do that myself, so that's as far as I can go with that.

Hang in there! I've gone through *so much* lameness with Daisy, and FINALLY found what works for us. Hope you do soon too!

allhorsestuff said...

Gosh darn Liss!
Sorry people are bugging you!

People, like me, sometimes think they have some answers and can be helpful. I bet she was not trying to be mean and meant no harm...but maybe was lacking in info, by the way she stepped up and did NOT read your PRIOR POSTS on the subject! OOPS..her bad!

Me, Having a relationship with you, I feel a bit freer to commnet and maybe leave some suggestions. They are JUST THAT- suggestions, based on my experience and or, reading up on things....well... and...you can still get pissed at me though.
I can take it, friendship and any worthwhile relationship is full of push /pull.

So sorry the mystery lameness is continuing. You have done your best for her..no doubt about that!
Man..good job, by the way. I still(happy too) have not had to do that ritual of soaking and wrapping and pultuce. Woo, you have done tons of work!

I still wish there was someone in your area that did Thermography imagaing..a vet maybe.

Recently my therapist, who does the imaging, went a world class local vet that does blocks and x rays. He had her shadow his work all day, to see what the imaging would reveal.
ONE horse...she was told to image it's feet and legs...she asked if she may image the shoulder(it was a barrel racer, and she knows something about what can happen to them)
She found the issue was a hairline HOT image, in the shoulder.(none in the legs or feet)

There is a BIG place for imamging science! Will save folks $$ cutting to the chase!

Did the vet ever suggest 'Block" her? That would rule out her feet too...if she continued to be limpy when she could not feel her hoof!

You know,
sometimes I can get disappointed in responces and sometimes the lack of them. AND- I too notice in the downtimes(which should make you feel good, I guess) People are right there...and in happier times, sometimes they are not-? HUH!

YOU take no mind...
Write for YOURSELF!
Those of us that enjoy your pleasures and life's ups and downs..will always be here, right with you.
1 comment can make up for 30 or 40 so -so ones anywho!
I RECENTLY have found this to be true.
LOVE YOU~
Kac

Unknown said...

Lisa,
I can hear your frustration loud and clear and I am sorry you are feeling so bad.....it is very frustrating to have a horse that is lame for a long perios of time, and I think you are on the right track seeing if it is leg related, or shoulder, or whatever. Legs and feet are so complex in animals of any kind, I sure hope you find the cause. Has she been x-rayed at all, maybe that would show something you cannot feel or see, just a thought.
I am sorry that you feel we are being judgemental, I know for sure I'm not....and I am sorry I personally don't comment more, I just have had a rough time lately, so please don't think I am ingnoring your other posts....I get a kick out of all of them!
Please know I appreciate the different things you write about...that is what makes your blog so fun! ANd I hope you keep blogging.... Have a good week! Sandy

Reddunappy said...

Lisa! dont stop blogging, I would miss you girl!!
You sure have been thorough in trying to find Apaches lameness problem! I applaud you for that.
I dont see thrush being your problem at all in your climate, now up here in the NW its a problem!!!! You have the perfect ground, dry and rocky to do the barefoot trim! You may enjoy looking over Pats blog, she is a barefoot trimmer up this way
http://hoofrecovery.blogspot.com/
I kinda got to know her because I commented on her blog and called her a guy! LOL gahhh she caught me up on that one LOL she is a hoot!
Teachs barefoot trim classes and has a DVD out with her class on it!
And Your Jenna is a beautiful young lady! I always think when you post about her that she looks so much like her Mama! She seems to be doing wonderful with her Ausburgers (sp) and a lot of that has to do with her Mamma being so good!!! Your twinlings are a hoot too LOL gotta love those boys, taking care of you!
I may not alway comment, but I love reading your posts!!!
People always offer multitudes of unsolicited advice, especially horse people!!! LOL So just take it or leave it, dont let it upset you. ((hugs))
Pam aka Reddunappy

Susan said...

I'm sorry to hear about Apache's lameness problems. I think a lot of health issues are related to mineral deficiencies. Read my April 29th blog post on the subject.

I can't imagine that fresh food, i.e. carrots and apples can be bad in any way. I'd keep feeding them. It's the processed stuff that we need to cut down on.

I've also noticed that people tend to comment more on the sad stuff than the the happy times. Good for your daughter. Love the pics above from Canyon Road.

Mare said...

Lisa, I completely understand your frustration. I'm a firm believer that nobody knows a horse quite like its owner, and although I didn't read BEC's comment about Apache's hooves, I can see it upset you, and therefore it probably wasn't a pleasant comment. The fact is, however, that ONLY YOU KNOW YOUR HORSE! So if someone makes an unkind comment about A HORSE THEY DON'T KNOW, simply laugh it off, because they can't possible know what their talking about. Sometimes we try to give advice to fellow bloggers, and most of us try to be nice and encouraging about it, but just the same, we're communicating through a computer, and therefore we're pretty ignorant on the situation. At the end of the day, there's a 100 some other bloggers that do enjoy reading about Apache and your ranch, so don't stop blogging, just keep laughing. Some people want to act like they know it all, but they honestly can not. It would be nice, though.

-Mare

Far Side of Fifty said...

Hi Lisa, Gosh I hope it wasn't me who said something about your footwear..I have been known to be opinionated about shoes and feet around horses..if so I do apologize...don't let someones comments stop you from blogging..:)

CTG Ponies said...

Just remember, everyone has an opinion and most don't hesitate to express it. You are doing everything you can for Apache and she knows she's loved. We've dealt with thrush a lot around here since I've had mostly horses raised in the West that aren't used to the moisture here. What worked the best for us is called Tomorrow paste. It's made for cow mastitis but does wonders for thrush. It's inexpensive, easy to use and gets in the deep crevices. I went back and looked at your post about Apache's trim. I would probably have done more of a Mustang roll all around but what he did probably works for her. I hope you find the cause of her discomfort soon!

Rebecca said...

Oh don't stop blogging! There are always going to be a few bad apples out there that think they know everything and ruin it for the rest of us. We have all met them, and usually they are horse people! For example, I recently left a boarding barn and moved my horses home. I got an email from one of the boarders from a previous barn asking how I was and what I was up to. When I told her, she accused me of not knowing what I was doing with horses because when I boarded where she was, I just let her ramble her opinions and pushy-ness on and on and never bothered to argue with her, so she assumed I was a clueless beginner. I emailed her back and told her that I did not think she was worth arguing with, and although I did not agree with her opinion, I was just being nice and letting her ramble on. Needless to say, she did not write me back. Please stick with blogging and telling your story, don't let those bad apples get you down. :)

Rising Rainbow said...

Lisa, sorry someone stepped on your toes. Unfortunately that seems to be part of blogging, I know I've had my share but I think there are far more nice people out there than those other kind. I'd hate to see you quit blogging or go private other those other kind. They're just not worth it.

Shirley said...

Hey Lisa, I haven't been visiting here because I've been so dang busy! I'm sorry to hear about all the negative comments. I haven't read the post about your daughter, but I'm glad to hear that she conquered fears, we all know how difficult that can be!
I did a blog post about changing routines and how it upsets horses. Apache will adjust, heck I'd be crabby if someone told me I couldn't have my favorite treat!
Maybe you can replace treats with extra grooming time. I also hope you can pinpoint her lameness issue and get back to riding, because that seems to make both you and her happy.
And don't quit blogging- there are always opinionated people, and not all of them mean harm, sometimes they think they are being helpful.