As you all know, I’ve been spending quite a bit of time throughout the day just hanging out with Apache so we can get to know each other better. I’m really enjoying this time with her and I think she is, too.
Apache likes to be near me and is more of a ‘touchy-feely’, in-your-pocket horse than what I’m used to. She will follow me around at liberty, lean her forehead against me gently, softly nuzzle my face with her muzzle, blow and breathe gently into my face as I breathe, place her head in my hands, seek me out to scratch her nose cheeks and muzzle and give her smooches………and she will lick me.
Here is a video of her licking me.
The licking part is what concerns me. She will try to lick my face, hands, pants, jacket, hair, everything. She mostly just licks the air, though.
When looking up reasons why horse lick people and what to do, I discovered a Message Board Thread discussing this issue, but there were no definitive answers.
One thought was that a horse must be licking to get the sweat for the salt it is lacking in it’s diet. Apache has a loose salt and mineral mix available to her, so I don’t think she’s licking because of a lack of salt or minerals. Plus she’s not trying to lick just my skin. She’s licking my pants, hat, hair and jacket, too.
Several people on that thread said that licking has nothing to do with being affectionate, but another person said “Well - I sure never saw a horse lick anybody they didn't like.” And yet another person said that licking always leads to biting.
Apache typically only tries to lick me when she is very relaxed and sleepy. And she is always quite gentle with her licking, so far, and she seems very cautious about it. For instance, if I tell her to stop and firmly say ‘No!’, and point my finger at her, she will stop and back up and have a worried look in her eyes. And then she will slowly come forward again, licking the air and tentatively reaching her tongue towards me again.
Another video of Apache trying to lick me.
If I give her a firm poke on her face, she will finally give up and completely stop licking me.
Because she has nipped my arm once already, last week when I was at Colleen’s taking her for a walk, I am concerned that the licking could turn into biting. I know that last week’s nip didn’t begin with licking, though, and was more a nip to let me know she didn’t think we should walk as far as we were heading.
But even though this licking seems to be more affectionate than aggressive, I don’t want it to lead into pushy or dominate behavior either. But I also don’t want to put up a wall in our relationship if her licking really is just innocent affection. She’s not tried to lick anyone else, like Ranchman John or Jenna, but they haven’t spent as much time with Apache as I have either.
So, should I ‘nip’ (pun intended) the licking in the bud?
Here are a some links to You Tube videos showing horses that lick their humans.
Do you have, or have had, a horse that licks you, too?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh! And before I forget, Apache is officially completely mine now. As of today, she has been paid for and her old tack (loaned from her previous owner, but never used) has been returned.
That old halter was muddy because she wore it 24/7 out in the pasture she was kept in. Apparently she was difficult to catch. So far, I’ve not had that problem here with her. She comes to the gate when she sees us and when we call her name. And I don’t believe in keeping a horse haltered when loose in a pasture and not supervised. She might get hooked on tree branches or t-posts and could get hurt.
Her owner warned me again today to always keep a tie-down on Apache because of the one time she reared with her. Colleen, nor I, ever used it on Apache during our rides, and Apache never once showed us any inclination that she might rear. We also used a different bit, the kind with the ‘dog bone’ or what English riders call a French-link bit. Apache has been nothing but soft and willing wearing that bit, and she also has shown me that she can be neck-reined and will also be directed using my legs and seat alone. So, I don’t have any plans to use a tie-down on her, just because of one incident with her previous owner. I would also like to see how Apache does wearing Baby Doll’s Dr. Cook’s Bitless Bridle. Oh. And Apache has an appointment to get her teeth floated next week, so I do believe that will also make a huge difference in her comfort level, too.
(Photo from last week, but not previously posted. I just liked this moment of calm and relaxation between Apache and I. I also like how that splash of white on her shoulder resembles a heart on a string.)
So, it’s official now. A new beginning for both Apache and for me.
45 comments :
My friend's horse licks....anything. I don't think he's ever bitten and my friend thinks it's cute so she doesn't stop it. She doesn't encourage it either.
Me? I've been bitten too many times. I'd stop it. I don't even like the dogs licking me.
But....it's your horse and your comfort zone. Do what you think is right and are comfortable with.
Looks like this is a happy ending (or beginning).
Sounds like you have a good handle on everything about this new horse Lisa. I personally wouldnt allow the licking, when I think of this I wonder if maybe she was a bottle baby? Just a thought. It can be one of those OCD habits so I would nip it in the bud, LOL. I am glad you arent using the tie down and she is doing wonderful, I see that she had a tom thumb bit before, awful awful things those. She will probably do great in your bitless bridle, oh and the french link is a very mild bit, but you probably already figured that out ;0) She probably reared before from to harsh a hand/bit, she obviously doesnt have a problem with you. Another sign LOL.
Indigo is the infamous licker. If you aren't paying attention she will sneak up behind you and lick whatever she can reach.
When she first started we stemmed it back to her HATING her muzzle being touched. Shes got a very sensitive muzzle and sure enough every time someone tries to pet it, she tries to lick them. It was her way of deterring them from petting that nose of hers. Of course if you pet her between the eyes or anyplace else she doesn't bother.
Do you often have treats on you? Her nosyness might be her searching for what buttons gets her treats out of you. I hand feed Indigo and only Indigo. The reasoning behind only her is she knows tricks. She knows she does not get anything I have until she does something for it 100% of the time from anyone. Having said this I can have a carrot/other food in my hand and she would not try to grab it until she did a trick upon MY request, not her begging because she does beg.
To discourage Indigo from licking people every time she puts her muzzle in my face/personal hula hoop I make her really uncomfortable by rubbing her muzzle very rigorously, which she hates.
None of my other horses lick but Indigo. Remember horses do not have nutritional wisdom sot hey don't know to lick/eat something when they are deficient. If this was true all my horses would be licking me or other things and they do not. They do however have a natural craving for salt and will know in a sitting when they generally have had enough (There are OCD salt block eaters though, the exception), just like when you eat too much chocolate and don't want any more even though theres lots left.
I wonder if it has something to do with personality. Indigo never grooms/lets others mutually groom her. Shes a grump to the others and has a 15 foot personal hula hoop for other horses, exception to Sheba. I think she sees me more as her herd as she nickers to me, wants to be groomed by me, follows me away from the herd and looks for my direction and protection when in the barnyard or paddock, no treats involved in that one.
Hello from a long-time lurker & first-time commenter. :)
I agree with the others, and as much as it seems innocent now, I'd nip it in the bud, so to speak.
Perhaps it is related to juvenile behaviour. Could she be a tiny bit stressed over the change and seeking approval from her higher-ups?
Rachel
Hmmm, about the licking. I personally wouldn't be too concerned about it, but thats me. I would definitely draw the line there though. No nipping, no matter how affectionate. I think a horse should be smart enough to understand the difference between a lick and a nip, and know that one is acceptable and the other not. As far as licking horses, I remember a colt my husband was working with, and he would like him ALL over. All over his head, his face, his hands, wherever he could reach. And he never once attempted to bite.
P.S. Soooooo happy you have a such a wonderful horse in your life again!
Meant to also say it doesn't sound aggressive
I had a mare that would lick , I wondered if it was a nervous thing , she tended to do it isf she was unsettled or upset , only licked me ,and only at times like having her feet done. Sound s to me like if you continue to genlty correct her she will give it up
I have horses that lick. It kind of depends on the situation what I do about it. Most of the time it's innocent......but not always.
For my horses I think they do it because they're bored and it's something to do...... a way to interact.
I get the impression that maybe Apache is doing it in a nervous sort of way. If that's the case I'd be trying to figure out a way to soothe her without the licking.
Also, I think if it annoys you, make her stop. Just decide what you're comfortable with and go by that. If the licking doesn't bother you but she gets pushy about it and that part bothers you, get her to stop that. She'll figure out what's ok and what's not.
My Boy licks sometimes, too. I always take it as a sign of affection, relaxation, or begging for treats, and he's never been nippy. I wonder if horses lick each other in the wild? Hopefully that is all it is w/Apache. I'm glad you two are getting some bonding time!
I am sooo happy to see you brought her home! Maybe you did need Baby Doll to be able to appreciate her. I do not know what to tell you about the licking. I had a friend with an Arab gelding that literally adored her. He licked her hands and would have climbed in her back pocket if he could. He was horribly jealous of the other horses when she would pay them any time at all. It was funny but sad also.
Licking isn't about nutrition, and it isn't always a precursor to biting. I've got horses that lick a lot, and some that never do. If I know they don't bite, I permit it, but on my terms. If I don't want them to do it, I just push their muzzle away or shoo them off - it helps to have a horse that knows how to move out of your space (well, this is always helpful).
I'm with you on the tie-down - she probably reared because someone hit her in the mouth - the bit she was wearing can be both severe and seriously confusing to a horse as it can give mixed signals.
She sounds like a mouthy horse and if that means that she will be a nipper, only time will tell. If you, as a horse savvy adult, were the only one to really be handling the horse I would not be concerned. But because you have children that will be working with her a lot too. I would, as you say, nip it in the bud.
As you get to know her better, you may learn that this is just one of her quirks.
Sounds like she is much happier with you though! Congrats on getting a good one!
Hey Lisa! I would not allow the licking to continue either, especially if it could turn into a nip with Jenna or someone else. I have French snaffles on my bridles, but seldom use them anymore. I use hackamores and now the bitless bridle like yours. The horses love it...so should Apache. Just think, not too long ago you were horseless! I'm very happy that you are so happy!
I'm back...I forgot to say how much I love the photo of her with the hay hanging out of her mouth. Great angle and a beautiful catch.
I have a cat that licks me all the time!! She loves me. :):) Maybe this is Apache's way of saying thank you?
Both my horses lick, Jaz much more so than Poco. Neither of them has ever bitten. If they did, they'd be the first horses on the moon.
Probably depends on the horse.
Hi Lisa - Congrats again I'm so happy for you.
Now lickers... My draft Rosie licks, or attempts to, me when I'm grooming her and she's really relaxed. She lick any part of me she can get to. She's never tried to bit or nip.
My trainers German Warm blood is a licker as well. He too licks when you are grooming him and he's all relaxed and happy. He's never ever attempted to bite any one that I know of and I've been boarding buddys with him for about 4 years.
Horses groom each other all the time, and I've always just assumed the licking was their way of returning the favor within the boundaries we set - NO TEETH !
Have a great day!
~Jeni
Until you know Apache better...be causious...but Jesse licks me every now and then...and I know he's doing it affectionately because of the situation when he does it. If he did it all the time...it may annoy me. Apashe is also "chewing" which is a good thing...Jesse does that withme alot when I scract his "good" spots. Chew and lick his lips and I know I have a happy boy!!!
Yet another way in which your Apache resembles my Rosie! I doubt their reasons are exactly the same; Rosie licks the air, or me, when I pet her, or when I stop and she wants more. It's a nervous / relaxed / submissive / begging thing with her. But, as you may have noticed, she's not a horse. :)
At any rate, congratulations again! I'm eager to read & see more about your developing relationship with Apache.
Congratulations on Apache! I can't help you on the licking. My horses just do the lip nibbling thing which is a lead in to a bite so even though it's so cute - not allowed. It's interesting that she approaches you licking the air. In dogs I thought that was a signal that they mean no harm or a calming signal. And I thought some horse trainers have you look for a horse to lick it's lips as a sign of submission. Hopefully, you like puzzles because this sounds like an interesting one.
Jack licks me all the time and has never offered to bite and I don't worry about it.
I had another horse that licked and nibbled a bit, every once in a while nibbling too hard. I also had one who would bite but never liked.
I think you need to know your horse and what you are willing to allow.
Having worked with a lot of abused and neglected dogs in the past and even right now with my little Jazzy Dog, I've found that they tend to crave more attention and licking is one way they find to get it. Jazzy will try and take my fingers in her mouth and she won't bite, but does get things in with her teeth and I just tell her NO TEETH and she backs off again. She's still learning, but draw a line with Apache and don't let her cross it. If she wants to lick and you want to let her to a point, then just set a trigger point for stopping it. You may find that as you get more and more used to each other and substitute a different re assuring gesture the licking may subside. Some of my past neglected dogs stopped licking as much when they learned they got petted and played with.
I actually trained Bombay to lick, because he was such an obnoxious biter as a yearling. He was mouthy, so I knew I needed to help him find something else to do with his mouth besides bite. Now if I offer him my hand and say, "Nice, nice," he'll lick it. He doesn't bite anymore at all. It was just a matter of scolding and striking back at the bites, and praising the licking.
I suspect the Apache may be telling you she wants to do some mutual grooming. Mares love to groom each other by rubbing their muzzles on each other's necks and backs and nibbling. Maybe another horse retaliated once when Apache bit too hard during grooming, so she's learned to communicate her desire for grooming in a less threatening way? Try bringing out a brush and brushing her when she licks you and see what she does.
Congrats! Apache is adorable, glad she turned out to be the horse for you.
I have no input on the licking. Never had a horse do that. But I wanted to say that the bit her former owners were using is not a nice bit and could very well have contributed to her rearing. A lot of people just slap a tie down on if a horse protests the bit, not solving the real problem at all. You may have already seen this article by Mark Rashid that explains why that bit(Tom Thumb Bit) can cause problems. People think it is not harsh because it has a snaffle mouthpiece, but the combination of shanks and broken mouthpiece can be confusing to a horse.
http://www.markrashid.com/docs/tomthumb.pdf
You have a whole bunch of interesting advice already; I like Nuz Muz's comment about brushing. I was going to suggest that the licking is probably a submissive thing, but if it gets annoying, instead of scolding her, redirect her attention by brushing, or asking her to do something; maybe some in-hand groundwork, you can still spend quality time with her that way, and teach her at the same time. Keep it positive; I think she's had a lot of negative energy around her in her lifetime. As far as the rearing goes, one look at the bit that was used on her, and the former owners penchant for tying her head down so that the mare could not escape the rider's hands, (and no one with light hands uses a tie down) and you have a perfect recipe for rearing. Where else could she go but up?
Gilly has never licked me but he licks and chews on Lacy. they will stand and groom each other for quite some time.
I don't know if licking humans is a good thing or bad thing??? Could it lead to biting, don't know.
Love your pictures!
hugs....
Jane
Lovely to see and hear of you getting your pony time in!
Glad that you can use your own stuff and sent that other equipment back...did not like the severe bit.
By her rearing...she may have disliked it too and thought to escape up. Well, My standing martingale was for my safety in the arena at first...Wa mare jumps and leaps and comes up..with me holding the grab strap and not the reins!But, I am trying to forgo it..do not want her to lean on it.
Bet she'll love the bit less!My Dog bone type -"Mullen mouth" rubber bit, was Wa's second fav...but it pushes her tongue out..too thick!Doesn't bother her as much as it does me to see her tongue.
And the licking...could be harmless, but definitely annoying. I'd just discourage it..like many have said.
She sure is a cutie!
Kac
Congrats on finally owning Apache now! Good luck and keep up the good work! I think you have plenty of advice, my only one is you know your horse and don't punish just make the bad things hard for her to do. Like Shirley said just redirect her to do something else.
Stormy likes to lick my hands, especially after eating. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as it doesn't turn into a bite.
- The Equestrian Vagabond
Not much to add here. Morgunn will occasionally lick my boots and I'm sure that's a salt thing even though we have two salt blocks available. He never licks anywhere else and Sugar doesn't lick at all.
Watch all her actions and if there is no pushing or invading your space, then it's probably harmless.
Dan
I think Apache is licking you because she's so over the moon at having someone who truly loves her.
Animals know...and they respond...
Interesting. It's tough with so much conflicting information.
Given that, you have to go with your gut on this one. You can ALWAYS change and outlaw licking. But I bet it's just connection, not dominance.
never knew horses were lickers...she sure is a pretty horse
I don't like dogs licking me or the cat. YUCk. Star will lick my hand like a pacifier if I let her. When she is nervous she just licks licks licks, but I dont do it often and she nipped me once and that was that.
Great video! Janow will lick me if he finds a wound.
Janow will lick me if he finds a wound. I know someone whose rabbit licks her if she scratches his butt!
Congrats on your new ownership!
Hmm.... I used to work with a horse that licked. We would grab his tongue and it was a big game to him. He was a silly dork anyways. Try grabbing on Apache's tongue and see what she does. This might not be something that is leading to biting, but more a game.
PS Thanks for stopping by!
I have not read all the comments so this might be redundant. You stroke and pet her with your hands. She can't do that (no hands), so maybe this is her version. Don't mother horses lick their babies? She may be just accepting or 'claiming' you.
Huge difference from Baby Doll!! Maybe ask the vet about her licking??
Does seem odd - to lick only you and not just your skin. But dogs love licking - it's their form of love. Don't know about horses. Sory she bit you - I see your concern. I don't let dogs lick me - so I'd probably not let my horse lick me either :)) That's just me.
Hugs, my friend
Patrina <")>><
Stylin licks my palm sometimes when I'm petting her. She's never offered to nip. I'm so glad you two are hitting it off so well!
Well I first have to say that I am so glad you two are hitting it off so well!! You are getting a lot of conflicting opinions on the licking LOL!! I personally after watching the video of the walk last week and this licking I kind of feel like she likes to be in your space...Which obviously is not where you want her. Her "actual" licking does appear soft. But she seems to maybe be pushing with her head at the same time?! I also think good call on the tie down! If it was giving her discomfort while that lady was riding her then she was trying to get away from it..
Your doing SO great with her Lisa!!
Oh Lisa, I am so happy for you! Apache seems like a fabulous equine companion!
Arwen often licks me and it has never been aggressive. We just share a moment like that. Our adult horses also like to rub their heads against that, and that too only feels like a form of connecting. I know, I've heard people talk about upcoming aggressivity, but as long as I am not concerned, they aren't either.
Greetings from Esther (through Sheba)
Lisa
My gelding licks me on my skin when he is relaxed and happy. I see it as a sign of affection and he has never tried to bite. He is very attached to me and gets very sulky if I pay other horses any attention. He is more attached to humans than horses which I know is not normal but that is how he is. So pleased you have Apache.
Janet xx
I think the licking thing is a very personal deal as to whether we should allow that sort of thing with our horses or not. I allow a certain amount of mouthiness. Maybe I shouldn't. But it works for me. With my geldings they're being affectionate or sometimes uncertain and nervous. Sometimes they're being bad and I get after them. I give others permission to get after them or not, as they see fit, when they handle them. About the worst I can say about it in my situation is that it's kind of inconvenient when they goob up my clothes.
Once again, I am so glad Apache and you were lucky enough to find each other!
Hi Lisa! Comanche' licks my hand whenever I feed her carrots, or peppermints or apples, after she finishes all of them off... I hold my hand up and she licks over and over.... I think its her way of saying... Yummm that was good!!!... LOL...she's never nipped my hand even when I am handing anything to her. So, I just think its a kind of "Thank you!"... have a great ride!!!
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